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	<title>Comments on: The &#8220;Hidden&#8221; Costs of an iPhone?</title>
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	<link>http://www.livedigitally.com/2008/07/12/the-hidden-costs-of-an-iphone/</link>
	<description>My opinions about convergence, consumer technology, gadgets, Web, and more.</description>
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		<title>By: Dan Hays</title>
		<link>http://www.livedigitally.com/2008/07/12/the-hidden-costs-of-an-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-380441</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Hays</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 00:03:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.livedigitally.com/?p=1500#comment-380441</guid>
		<description>I am getting more text messages showing up on my bill than took place on my iphone 3g.I&#039;ve emailed ATT about it and have not heard back yet. BOOOOOO!!!  In cases like mine where we can prove over charging, Lets take pics of the bill and the texts on the phone that&#039;ll prove the texts never took place and put them on you tube and blow these crooks out of the water. If anything it&#039;ll show breach of contract and we should be able to get out of the 2 year contract without the fine. Then crack the iphone and go with a better company.  The more of us that do this the better chance ATT will fix their S**t!!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am getting more text messages showing up on my bill than took place on my iphone 3g.I&#8217;ve emailed ATT about it and have not heard back yet. BOOOOOO!!!  In cases like mine where we can prove over charging, Lets take pics of the bill and the texts on the phone that&#8217;ll prove the texts never took place and put them on you tube and blow these crooks out of the water. If anything it&#8217;ll show breach of contract and we should be able to get out of the 2 year contract without the fine. Then crack the iphone and go with a better company.  The more of us that do this the better chance ATT will fix their S**t!!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: iPhone Compared to BlackBerry &#124; Rick Tech</title>
		<link>http://www.livedigitally.com/2008/07/12/the-hidden-costs-of-an-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-337860</link>
		<dc:creator>iPhone Compared to BlackBerry &#124; Rick Tech</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 19:24:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.livedigitally.com/?p=1500#comment-337860</guid>
		<description>[...] the lack of non-AT&amp;T options is annoying to me. I&#8217;m a pre-paid kind of guy. None of this month to month stuff. But the iPhone showing up all over the place makes it hard not to bite the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the lack of non-AT&#38;T options is annoying to me. I&#8217;m a pre-paid kind of guy. None of this month to month stuff. But the iPhone showing up all over the place makes it hard not to bite the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Arno</title>
		<link>http://www.livedigitally.com/2008/07/12/the-hidden-costs-of-an-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-335069</link>
		<dc:creator>Arno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 19:19:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.livedigitally.com/?p=1500#comment-335069</guid>
		<description>Exactly.  The data usage on the iphone is killing AT&amp;T.
http://www.geldpress.com/2008/07/att-lose-money-iphone/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly.  The data usage on the iphone is killing AT&amp;T.<br />
<a href="http://www.geldpress.com/2008/07/att-lose-money-iphone/" rel="nofollow">http://www.geldpress.com/2008/07/att-lose-money-iphone/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Arno</title>
		<link>http://www.livedigitally.com/2008/07/12/the-hidden-costs-of-an-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-335066</link>
		<dc:creator>Arno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 19:12:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.livedigitally.com/?p=1500#comment-335066</guid>
		<description>It appears that even the $10 increase will not be enough to save AT&amp;T from iphone losses.
http://www.geldpress.com/2008/07/att-lose-money-iphone/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It appears that even the $10 increase will not be enough to save AT&amp;T from iphone losses.<br />
<a href="http://www.geldpress.com/2008/07/att-lose-money-iphone/" rel="nofollow">http://www.geldpress.com/2008/07/att-lose-money-iphone/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Avi Greengart</title>
		<link>http://www.livedigitally.com/2008/07/12/the-hidden-costs-of-an-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-334956</link>
		<dc:creator>Avi Greengart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 14:53:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.livedigitally.com/?p=1500#comment-334956</guid>
		<description>Dave,

Yes, the iPhone plan is tied to the SIM card, which can be inserted into other phones bought contract free at an independent retailer or one of two Nokia stores in the country. Just remember, having multiple phones is NOT a standard use case in the U.S. So for most people, AT&amp;T is charging $20/month for EDGE data with the original, and $30/month for 3G data with the new one. I agree with David - that&#039;s a fair (if pricey) upgrade. Faster is better, so you pay more, which passes the common sense test. Where the logic falls apart is for users who live in areas outside of AT&amp;T&#039;s 3G coverage; then it&#039;s just an extra $10 for nothing (though I suppose if you&#039;re feeling generous you could consider it a finance plan that covers the subsidy). There&#039;s no way to rationalize the lack of SMS, though.

-avi</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave,</p>
<p>Yes, the iPhone plan is tied to the SIM card, which can be inserted into other phones bought contract free at an independent retailer or one of two Nokia stores in the country. Just remember, having multiple phones is NOT a standard use case in the U.S. So for most people, AT&amp;T is charging $20/month for EDGE data with the original, and $30/month for 3G data with the new one. I agree with David &#8211; that&#8217;s a fair (if pricey) upgrade. Faster is better, so you pay more, which passes the common sense test. Where the logic falls apart is for users who live in areas outside of AT&amp;T&#8217;s 3G coverage; then it&#8217;s just an extra $10 for nothing (though I suppose if you&#8217;re feeling generous you could consider it a finance plan that covers the subsidy). There&#8217;s no way to rationalize the lack of SMS, though.</p>
<p>-avi</p>
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		<title>By: mediaphile</title>
		<link>http://www.livedigitally.com/2008/07/12/the-hidden-costs-of-an-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-334865</link>
		<dc:creator>mediaphile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 10:36:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.livedigitally.com/?p=1500#comment-334865</guid>
		<description>I pay more for Sprint&#039;s EVDO than I did for its 2g network.  Why wouldn&#039;t AT&amp;T charge more for a newer network?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I pay more for Sprint&#8217;s EVDO than I did for its 2g network.  Why wouldn&#8217;t AT&amp;T charge more for a newer network?</p>
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		<title>By: David Speiser</title>
		<link>http://www.livedigitally.com/2008/07/12/the-hidden-costs-of-an-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-334626</link>
		<dc:creator>David Speiser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 00:40:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.livedigitally.com/?p=1500#comment-334626</guid>
		<description>Hi Ricky, thank you for your comment.  Xero and Dave, thank you as well.   

Ricky, with all due respect, I think you&#039;re missing my primary point.  I&#039;m not arguing that the iPhone does or does not make mobile internet &#039;more fun&#039; or &#039;more accessible.&#039;  I&#039;m making a point about these so-called &quot;hidden costs.&quot;  I&#039;m saying that they&#039;re not hidden at all.  They are amortized over two years. 

My G1 iPhone cost me $500 (after a $100 gift card rebate.)  The new phone will cost less money up front, only $200.00.  The balance (and then some) will be paid back over time through contractual obligations.  Over the lifespan of that two year contract, I have to pay a little more for my phone and phone usage.  And it is my steadfast opinion that I will consume *significantly* more data using the newer phone than I would have with the old phone.  That&#039;s it. 

I agree with you (and with Dave Zatz)that AT&amp;T is overcharging.  I would prefer they charged less.  I think it&#039;s particularly outrageous that they&#039;re charging so much for text messages.  

All that being said, I drink the iPhone kool-aid. I don&#039;t mind paying their price to use the device.  I have a whole bunch of gripes (again agreeing with one of Dave&#039;s points here) about features they chose not to include, and there may be a future post complaining about those quite soon.  But I stand by my post, that these costs are not hidden at all, and are for the most appropriate. Of course, I completely respect your right to disagree and believe I&#039;m a moron. :)

Cheers guys. 

David</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ricky, thank you for your comment.  Xero and Dave, thank you as well.   </p>
<p>Ricky, with all due respect, I think you&#8217;re missing my primary point.  I&#8217;m not arguing that the iPhone does or does not make mobile internet &#8216;more fun&#8217; or &#8216;more accessible.&#8217;  I&#8217;m making a point about these so-called &#8220;hidden costs.&#8221;  I&#8217;m saying that they&#8217;re not hidden at all.  They are amortized over two years. </p>
<p>My G1 iPhone cost me $500 (after a $100 gift card rebate.)  The new phone will cost less money up front, only $200.00.  The balance (and then some) will be paid back over time through contractual obligations.  Over the lifespan of that two year contract, I have to pay a little more for my phone and phone usage.  And it is my steadfast opinion that I will consume *significantly* more data using the newer phone than I would have with the old phone.  That&#8217;s it. </p>
<p>I agree with you (and with Dave Zatz)that AT&amp;T is overcharging.  I would prefer they charged less.  I think it&#8217;s particularly outrageous that they&#8217;re charging so much for text messages.  </p>
<p>All that being said, I drink the iPhone kool-aid. I don&#8217;t mind paying their price to use the device.  I have a whole bunch of gripes (again agreeing with one of Dave&#8217;s points here) about features they chose not to include, and there may be a future post complaining about those quite soon.  But I stand by my post, that these costs are not hidden at all, and are for the most appropriate. Of course, I completely respect your right to disagree and believe I&#8217;m a moron. <img src='http://www.livedigitally.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Cheers guys. </p>
<p>David</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Zatz</title>
		<link>http://www.livedigitally.com/2008/07/12/the-hidden-costs-of-an-iphone/comment-page-1/#comment-334470</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Zatz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 19:59:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.livedigitally.com/?p=1500#comment-334470</guid>
		<description>I agree with Ricky. 3G access costing more $ is all smoke and mirrors, especially since high bandwidth apps (think VoIP) are not permitted, unless than using WiFi. (So Jobs has said.) And here&#039;s the real BS kicker... my v1 iPhone SIM when put in my Nokia N95 gives me 3g access for that same $20/mo not $30.

Regarding &quot;hidden costs&quot; Apple is also saving a few bucks by not including a dock with the new model - it&#039;s $30 extra.

(I&#039;m keeping my v1 model - works fine and the new hardware isn&#039;t compelling enough to upgrade. If they had included a higher megapixel camera, I might have made the leap.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Ricky. 3G access costing more $ is all smoke and mirrors, especially since high bandwidth apps (think VoIP) are not permitted, unless than using WiFi. (So Jobs has said.) And here&#8217;s the real BS kicker&#8230; my v1 iPhone SIM when put in my Nokia N95 gives me 3g access for that same $20/mo not $30.</p>
<p>Regarding &#8220;hidden costs&#8221; Apple is also saving a few bucks by not including a dock with the new model &#8211; it&#8217;s $30 extra.</p>
<p>(I&#8217;m keeping my v1 model &#8211; works fine and the new hardware isn&#8217;t compelling enough to upgrade. If they had included a higher megapixel camera, I might have made the leap.)</p>
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