Comments on: HP helping to increase HDTV FUD http://www.livedigitally.com/2007/05/24/hp-helping-to-increase-hdtv-fud/ Reviews and opinions about consumer technology, gadgets, Websites, new media, services, and more. Sun, 20 Jul 2008 18:29:59 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Zatz Not Funny!»Blog Archive » HP Invents HDTV 2.0 http://www.livedigitally.com/2007/05/24/hp-helping-to-increase-hdtv-fud/#comment-152662 Zatz Not Funny!»Blog Archive » HP Invents HDTV 2.0 Fri, 25 May 2007 12:20:16 +0000 http://www.livedigitally.com/2007/05/24/hp-helping-to-increase-hdtv-fud/#comment-152662 [...] This sounds similar in functionality to Sony’s upcoming “Internet Video Link” Bravia accessory (shown above). However, JT of LiveDigitally is up in arms over HP’s branding strategy: HP, a company I’ve liked over the years, decided that they wanted to get involved and, for lack of a more perfect phrase, screw with the HDTV industry by using the term “HDTV 2.0″. Shame on you, HP, for such an ill-timed, inappropriate, and unnecessary move. [...] [...] This sounds similar in functionality to Sony’s upcoming “Internet Video Link” Bravia accessory (shown above). However, JT of LiveDigitally is up in arms over HP’s branding strategy: HP, a company I’ve liked over the years, decided that they wanted to get involved and, for lack of a more perfect phrase, screw with the HDTV industry by using the term “HDTV 2.0″. Shame on you, HP, for such an ill-timed, inappropriate, and unnecessary move. [...]

]]> By: Out of the Box » Blog Archive » HP + HDTV + IP ≠ FUD http://www.livedigitally.com/2007/05/24/hp-helping-to-increase-hdtv-fud/#comment-152536 Out of the Box » Blog Archive » HP + HDTV + IP ≠ FUD Thu, 24 May 2007 22:18:58 +0000 http://www.livedigitally.com/2007/05/24/hp-helping-to-increase-hdtv-fud/#comment-152536 [...] My friend and fellow Engadget columnist Jeremy Toeman takes HP to task for promoting “HDTV 2.0,” a marketing sobriquet over the notion of a television connected– to home networks and the Internet at least. What does this have to do with “HD”? Not much, except that the higher resolution makes it easier to display text and the more generally available digital inputs facilitate the attachment of computing devices. (Tracing the tortured history of digital television in the U.S. through Grand Alliance days, it looks like Microsoft in retrospect won the war over progressive scan.) [...] [...] My friend and fellow Engadget columnist Jeremy Toeman takes HP to task for promoting “HDTV 2.0,” a marketing sobriquet over the notion of a television connected– to home networks and the Internet at least. What does this have to do with “HD”? Not much, except that the higher resolution makes it easier to display text and the more generally available digital inputs facilitate the attachment of computing devices. (Tracing the tortured history of digital television in the U.S. through Grand Alliance days, it looks like Microsoft in retrospect won the war over progressive scan.) [...]

]]> By: tivoboy http://www.livedigitally.com/2007/05/24/hp-helping-to-increase-hdtv-fud/#comment-152516 tivoboy Thu, 24 May 2007 21:08:17 +0000 http://www.livedigitally.com/2007/05/24/hp-helping-to-increase-hdtv-fud/#comment-152516 I think the key point that I would make is, between DVI and HDMI, there is not a perceivable video quality differance. Of course, HDMI offers a whole slew of additional advantages, carrying sound just being one of them. clearly, componant is a step down, even if just 1% down, topic of discussion. there are cases to be made for componant, depending on TV type and resolution and output and CONTENT where componant might mask some of the lack of quality in SD material, or DVD material. I would never say, HDMI video quality is better than DVI. As for 720p to 1080i, I think, at six+ feet with an HD tv, nobody is going to perceive a video quality differance, but COULD perceive a differance based on CONTENT type, part of the reason networks like ESPN and ABC use 720p, as it SUPPOSEDLY offers a better image quality with fast moving, action images. 1080P should offer a similar advantage. I think the key point that I would make is, between DVI and HDMI, there is not a perceivable video quality differance.
Of course, HDMI offers a whole slew of additional advantages, carrying sound just being one of them.

clearly, componant is a step down, even if just 1% down, topic of discussion. there are cases to be made for componant, depending on TV type and resolution and output and CONTENT where componant might mask some of the lack of quality in SD material, or DVD material.

I would never say, HDMI video quality is better than DVI.

As for 720p to 1080i, I think, at six+ feet with an HD tv, nobody is going to perceive a video quality differance, but COULD perceive a differance based on CONTENT type, part of the reason networks like ESPN and ABC use 720p, as it SUPPOSEDLY offers a better image quality with fast moving, action images. 1080P should offer a similar advantage.

]]> By: Jeremy Toeman http://www.livedigitally.com/2007/05/24/hp-helping-to-increase-hdtv-fud/#comment-152509 Jeremy Toeman Thu, 24 May 2007 20:28:10 +0000 http://www.livedigitally.com/2007/05/24/hp-helping-to-increase-hdtv-fud/#comment-152509 Re the cables: my point here is on the future - I\'ve seen some demos recently that actually showed cheap HDMI cables failing to present a 1080p signal from a PS3. The only point I have here is as the bandwidth increases, so will the needs for quality on cabling and interconnects. Handling a sub-1Gbps HDMI signal is very different than a 10Gbps. I agree that anything you are buying in stores today you won\'t see the difference, but as the next gen of games and movies comes along, you will... For the rest, we will have to agree to agree! :) Re the cables: my point here is on the future - I\’ve seen some demos recently that actually showed cheap HDMI cables failing to present a 1080p signal from a PS3. The only point I have here is as the bandwidth increases, so will the needs for quality on cabling and interconnects. Handling a sub-1Gbps HDMI signal is very different than a 10Gbps. I agree that anything you are buying in stores today you won\’t see the difference, but as the next gen of games and movies comes along, you will…

For the rest, we will have to agree to agree! :)

]]> By: Ben Drawbaugh http://www.livedigitally.com/2007/05/24/hp-helping-to-increase-hdtv-fud/#comment-152505 Ben Drawbaugh Thu, 24 May 2007 20:01:18 +0000 http://www.livedigitally.com/2007/05/24/hp-helping-to-increase-hdtv-fud/#comment-152505 I would say that 90% of people can't tell the difference between 720, 1080i and 1080p. But that doesn't mean it is fair to call them the same thing. Also more people can tell the difference between 720p and 1080i and 1080i and 1080p. My TV is a Mitsubishi WS55813, which works best with component. There are other TVs as well, especially if you consider the fact that HDMI is so problematic. (Like you had with your Netgear NV8000) Again 90% of people can't tell the difference. (Ryan's Xbox 360 Elite post is a good example) You will only see a difference with an upconverting DVD players if your TV has a cheap scalers in it. If you can see a difference with a $150 upscaling DVD player then you must own a "budget" TV (nothing wrong with that, we all have one). You won't see a difference on any of the "named brand" TVs. Ask Ryan Block about it, he has 46" Sharp Aquos. The reason is a 4k TV has a much nicer scaler than a $150 DVD player. But the main reason is explained here. http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/05/14/why-upconverting-dvd-players-can-be-a-gimmick/ The jest of it is that almost ALL TVs scale, (yes even LCDs and Plasmas) and when you use an upconverting DVD player it causes the signal to get scaled twice. So it only helps if the scaler in your DVD player is better than the one in your TV. Otherwise it just mucks up the signal. As for cables, in the case of digital transmissions, bits are bits and they either get there or they don't. If you are really that worried about it, buy two sets and take a look for yourself, but if you don't think Blu-ray is worth the money, then there is no way you will think $50 for a $30 cable is worth it. Ultimately we both agree on the main point of the post. I would say that 90% of people can’t tell the difference between 720, 1080i and 1080p. But that doesn’t mean it is fair to call them the same thing. Also more people can tell the difference between 720p and 1080i and 1080i and 1080p.

My TV is a Mitsubishi WS55813, which works best with component. There are other TVs as well, especially if you consider the fact that HDMI is so problematic. (Like you had with your Netgear NV8000) Again 90% of people can’t tell the difference. (Ryan’s Xbox 360 Elite post is a good example)

You will only see a difference with an upconverting DVD players if your TV has a cheap scalers in it. If you can see a difference with a $150 upscaling DVD player then you must own a “budget” TV (nothing wrong with that, we all have one). You won’t see a difference on any of the “named brand” TVs. Ask Ryan Block about it, he has 46″ Sharp Aquos. The reason is a 4k TV has a much nicer scaler than a $150 DVD player.

But the main reason is explained here.
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/05/14/why-upconverting-dvd-players-can-be-a-gimmick/

The jest of it is that almost ALL TVs scale, (yes even LCDs and Plasmas) and when you use an upconverting DVD player it causes the signal to get scaled twice. So it only helps if the scaler in your DVD player is better than the one in your TV. Otherwise it just mucks up the signal.

As for cables, in the case of digital transmissions, bits are bits and they either get there or they don’t. If you are really that worried about it, buy two sets and take a look for yourself, but if you don’t think Blu-ray is worth the money, then there is no way you will think $50 for a $30 cable is worth it.

Ultimately we both agree on the main point of the post.

]]> By: Jeremy Toeman http://www.livedigitally.com/2007/05/24/hp-helping-to-increase-hdtv-fud/#comment-152501 Jeremy Toeman Thu, 24 May 2007 19:24:15 +0000 http://www.livedigitally.com/2007/05/24/hp-helping-to-increase-hdtv-fud/#comment-152501 Ben, 720p vs 1080i - yes, they are technically very different, however to the average consumer, there is no difference. Experts in the field like Alvy Ray Smith have done a good job pointing out the difference (http://alvyray.com/DigitalTV/default.htm), but your typical Joe out there can\'t pinpoint the differences... HDMI v component - can you show an example of when component is better? this one I think is pretty easily distinguishable on the average HD set-top box. HDMI cables - I\'ve got a great demo to show you using all-1080p equipment. As I said if you are looking at the long-term and spending a lot of money for a great setup, the $50/60 cable IS DIFFERENT than the $10/20/30 cables. If you are like me, with a 720p setup and a low-end 32\" display, then sure, all the cables are the same. Upscaling DVD players - look better, and easily distinguishable even on inexpensive equipment Blu-ray HD - I put the hyphen in to distinguish the two, I know they are two different things, I just miscapitalized one - fixing now. HP - yes, I do think HP is making a cool product, and I hope they set the trend. I hate the marketing term, and that\'s really what my post was about. Ben,
720p vs 1080i - yes, they are technically very different, however to the average consumer, there is no difference. Experts in the field like Alvy Ray Smith have done a good job pointing out the difference (http://alvyray.com/DigitalTV/default.htm), but your typical Joe out there can\’t pinpoint the differences…

HDMI v component - can you show an example of when component is better? this one I think is pretty easily distinguishable on the average HD set-top box.

HDMI cables - I\’ve got a great demo to show you using all-1080p equipment. As I said if you are looking at the long-term and spending a lot of money for a great setup, the $50/60 cable IS DIFFERENT than the $10/20/30 cables. If you are like me, with a 720p setup and a low-end 32\” display, then sure, all the cables are the same.

Upscaling DVD players - look better, and easily distinguishable even on inexpensive equipment

Blu-ray HD - I put the hyphen in to distinguish the two, I know they are two different things, I just miscapitalized one - fixing now.

HP - yes, I do think HP is making a cool product, and I hope they set the trend. I hate the marketing term, and that\’s really what my post was about.

]]> By: Ben Drawbaugh http://www.livedigitally.com/2007/05/24/hp-helping-to-increase-hdtv-fud/#comment-152486 Ben Drawbaugh Thu, 24 May 2007 17:49:03 +0000 http://www.livedigitally.com/2007/05/24/hp-helping-to-increase-hdtv-fud/#comment-152486 Jeremy, Love the site, but this isn't your best work. 720p and 1080i are not even close to being the same thing, if any two are even close, it's 1080i and 1080p. HDMI isn't always better than component, and expensive HDMI cables are a complete rip off. Don't spend more than $30 on a 2m cable or you are paying too much. Upscalling DVD players are usually a gimmick, and it's Blu-ray and HD DVD. Not BluRay HD. Sure HP shouldn't have used the name HD 2.0 (neither should HD Radio, but everyone loves to jump on the bandwagon). I do however agree with what HP is doing and wish that everyone would build some sort of PC media access software in their TVs. Jeremy,
Love the site, but this isn’t your best work.

720p and 1080i are not even close to being the same thing, if any two are even close, it’s 1080i and 1080p.

HDMI isn’t always better than component, and expensive HDMI cables are a complete rip off. Don’t spend more than $30 on a 2m cable or you are paying too much.

Upscalling DVD players are usually a gimmick, and it’s Blu-ray and HD DVD. Not BluRay HD.

Sure HP shouldn’t have used the name HD 2.0 (neither should HD Radio, but everyone loves to jump on the bandwagon). I do however agree with what HP is doing and wish that everyone would build some sort of PC media access software in their TVs.

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